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Machine-assisted transcript with punctuation added. [Unclear] marks uncertain words; refer to the recording for exact wording.

A high one, Dougie Flockhart's under that, he's caught it and he's running. He's been caught, flips it out to the fly half, who gets it out to Seb Jewell in the centre and out to the winger, number 11, Charlie Amesbury. Wearing a scrum cap, interestingly, for a wing three quarter, they don't normally. Must have sensitive ears. And the referee's blown there, it appears to be a penalty to Esher on around the halfway line, just inside the Welsh half.

[Unclear] kick if he were to go for it.

Machine-assisted transcript with punctuation added. [Unclear] marks uncertain words; refer to the recording for exact wording.

Interviewer: I'm standing here at the Twickenham Stoop in the bar. Alongside me is a wonderful man, Jason Leonard.

He used to be a member of Quins for many years and a former England player with 100 and some odd caps, Jason.

Jason Leonard: 114.

Interviewer: How many years did you play international rugby?

Jason Leonard: All in all, I played 14 years international rugby, so quite fortunate. I think it was seven years amateur, seven years professional, so I got to see the best of both worlds.

Interviewer: I think you did, and you were one of those lucky ones. An era when the players had a proper job, they were policemen or they were, you I think, were a joiner.

There were school teachers, army officers, solicitors doing a proper job during the week and then turning out and playing of a Saturday and training of course during the week as well. Must have been tough.

Jason Leonard: It was hard, but I think now because you experienced that and how the game has changed, I mean the landscape is completely different now of the professional game.

That actually brings some enjoyment with it as well because, as you said, you'd come to a game or you'd come to training and one guy would be a doctor and one guy would be a solicitor and one guy would be a builder and one guy would be a policeman.

And the banter and the crack, the camaraderie that brought about was absolutely fantastic and it was a very special time and you actually got great enjoyment out of a game that was your hobby. You actually played for nothing.

And in the professional era, you got asked that your hobby would become your job. Well, you couldn't get a better job in the world. So I've been very lucky and very fortunate.

Interviewer: And very skilled, I would have to say. I mean, you worked extremely hard to be where you are.

Jason Leonard: I think if you want to succeed in anything, you've got to work hard. You talk to kids today, young young people today when you're talking about rugby in particular.

You see someone like Jonny Wilkinson that they can all see and they idolise as a top class player.

The reason why he's a top class world class player is because it's not what you see on an 80 minutes on a field.

It's the hours and hours and hours of hard work that you don't see that are either in gyms or on the training ground,

practicing kicking at goal and everyone seems to think you just turn up on a Saturday afternoon at 3 o'clock and that's what you do.

There's a lot more that goes into the job than that.

Interviewer: You must have spent hours in the gym.

Jason Leonard: Hours in the gym in the professional era, most probably in the amateur era, hours in the pub.

Interviewer: The last time you and I met, and you probably don't remember, was in the sun in Richmond.

You were with Jeff Probyn, I think, that evening. And the landlord, we had a bit of a lock-in.

Jason Leonard: It's always one of the best pubs in the area. It's still my local after all these years.

Machine-assisted transcript with punctuation added. [Unclear] marks uncertain words; refer to the recording for exact wording.

Our thoughts turned to South Africa. Those of you who have been following the test cricket there will have had a difficult three days if you're an England supporter. England went into the final game of the test series, one nil up. So all we had to do was draw this match or win it and they would win the series. Andrew Strauss won the toss on the opening day and seems to have made the mistake of electing to bat. And England was skittled out for a very meager score, 180 all told. Strauss [Unclear] out for a duck and it just went from bad to worse

After that, very few saving graces. Collingwood and Bell, bless them. They chipped in in the middle order with 47 for Collingwood, 35 for Bell. Graeme Swann, who's a tremendous off-spin bowler, chipped in with 27 towards the end. But it wasn't enough. 180 all out. Never was going to be enough. And Graeme Smith survived. Confident appeal for caught behind. Early on in his innings and went on to score 105. Amla batting at number three, scored 75, de Villiers, 58. And Mark Boucher was heading for a century.

Graeme Swann got him with the first ball of a new over and Boucher was out for 95. Nevertheless, South Africa notched up a score of 423 for seven, declared, giving them a comfortable lead of 243 on the first innings.